Thursday, March 26, 2009

Why WoW tourist are a problem (imo)

So I was replying to a comment who replied to my comment on Isobelle's blog. Well, it turned into it's own blog post. COPYPASTA

Originally said by me

WoW Tourists started with the release and subsequent massive server closing of WAR. We blame it on "WoW Tourists" because they didn't really want something besides WoW, they wanted something just like WoW. Some people think that is why Aventurine is doing this staggered release, so they do not fall victim as WAR did. That's probably not true, but it is pretty funny.

response to me
Is there no room for the fact that WAR was a bit of a mess when it launched to be the reason people left?

yes there was some "tourism" going on but it's not the only reason. The game shipped with loads of issues from balancing, to gameplay, to server population imbalances.

There is and always has been Tourism going on. It happened when WoW launched people left all their old MMO's to get a look at the new kid..but you know was good enough to hold on to a majority of those tourists plus add new people.

Yet somehow for WAR, or Darkfall, or any othe rnew game that comes out it is not the Developers fault for releasing a mess but the Tourists fauls for not taking a subpar product and forcing themselves ot play it?

How does that make any sense?

Oh and I'd like to point out that the same thing that happened to WAR happened to AoC..but you don't see people blaming the "WoW Tourist' for that do you.

and finally, me responding to that, not in blockquotes

The people that don't love everything WoW didn't quit until after the WoW players went back for Liche King (which if you remember launched about the same time WARs one month free time ran up). The reason they did quit was because of barren servers because a game like WAR requires dense population for it to achieve the desired effect (for the game to work as the devs intended).

Server population imbalances? Because WoW doesn't still have that problem, nope.
Same with balancing, which class is FoTM in WoW this month? (every mmo will always have balancing problems)
Gameplay is such a blanket statement that I can't even respond except to say that I think WoW has "gameplay issues". (Yeah, take that!)

When WoW launched, there was no tourism. That's like saying when everyone started boating over to America they were all tourists. You're not a tourist unless you go back where you came from.

This is my favorite part though. Where all new games are released as a "mess" and are "subpar" therefore cannot retain membership.

Why do you think you and WoW players consider these games a "mess" and "subpar"?

Well I can tell you why one of my RL friends stopped playing WAR (and went back to WoW where has has 4800 hours logged on his xfire). He told me he just didn't like it, I asked why, he said it was just too boring. So I asked him how he tried to level.

Turns out he just did a bunch of quests and a couple of PQs (which he thought were cool). He didn't try Open RvR (which admittedly wasn't that great at release, but is now) and he didn't try a single Scenario.

He even got to level 26. By solely questing and doing PQs.

Wonder where he adopted that playstyle.

Wonder why he would try to apply that playstyle to a game that advertises itself as the opposite of what he is used to.

As for AoC, I can't really comment much because I still haven't played it. However, my guild played it since release up until Darkfall came out, so I can't see it being that bad. Plus they shipped over 1 million boxes (sold over 500,000).

But this is the big point.
Over 500,000 people signed up for AoC beta.
The month after release, over 500,000 copies were sold.
They had 49 initial servers, giving each server over 10k people a piece.

Where the hell do you think all of those people came from? (hint: before WoW the estimated number of MMO players was <500,000)

Warhammer had 750,000 people playing one month after release (Mid October of 08).
WotLK released Mid November 2008.
Warhammer had over 300k paying subscribers in December of 2008.

You're telling me that is Funcom and Mythic's fault? What would have happened if they didn't put up enough servers to accommodate the estimate player base? Would people have said what they're saying about Darkfall now? How dumb they are for not letting everyone who wants to play actually play?

What if Aventurine, indie game company, exhausted it's resources some more and put up enough servers for the people who obviously aren't going to stick around? Do you think they could afford a loss like that? (aka, losing 70% of their servers)

Plus, the majority of WoW players who try out games that aren't WoW pretty much NEVER stick with it. Especially if the game was just released.
Because every MMO in the history of MMOs has released with bugs and lack of polish and queues and server downtime. The majority of WoW players did not play WoW at release and those who did like to conveniently forget that it had the same damn problems.

So what do they do after that? head on over to the WoW forums of course! We have important "THIS GAME IS TEH SUX" threads to make, which in turn, affirm the notion in WoW players' heads that there is no game out there "better" than WoW.

So when a game has been around a year and has polished up quite nicely, they're still not going to get new players because the only possible new players they could get would be coming from WoW, but since they all heard "THAT GAME IS TEH SUX" they won't even consider it.

Blizzard has raised an army of ignorant, whiney little bitches who only expect WoW quality MMOs out of every fucking game that releases. Which pretty much goes against the "Constitution" of the MMO genre (but why would WoW players bother to care about history of something they're supposed fans of).


I guess I just hate all of the fucking new kids WoW brought to the genre, because they don't care about the foundation that the genre was built on, because their parents spoil them or they think they're some super special fucker that game companies have to listen to. If you feel like this is directed at you, fuck you!

that is all


Tallon said...

Good points, it has inspired me to be a tiny bit more patient while waiting for the game, though I'm still like a kid before christmas.

emenkay said...

Thank you sir. I seem really angry the more I read all my shit.

Bonedead said...

Someone was on my friggin computer!

Anonymous said...

Sorry Bonedead Ive got to disagree with some of your points.

Both Mythic and Funcom knew exactly what they were doing, they saw a chance to release their games before WoWs latest expansions and take advantage of bored WoW players looking for something a bit different. I played WAR beta and it was great however when it went live it was terrible and full of glitches and bugs.

Also this lack of polish and give it a year crap just doesn’t hold any water, if someone wants to make a successful game and compete with WoW they NEED to release a finished game, they know what they are up against. People can argue that WoW has had a 4 year head start on games but again that doesn’t matter, its not as if WoW has drastically changed over that period, if anything its gotten bigger, easier and if im honest a bit tired.

Look at WAR they released with massive content and class cuts just to get out before WoTLK, the fact of the matter was their game wasn’t ready for release and they paid the price due to people leaving after the free month ended. Can you blame people for paying for a box , being let down by the company and subsequently choosing to leave? Of course not. They aren’t going to stick around and spend money on something they don’t enjoy while Mythic gets its finger out and adds things which where supposed to be included in release.

In conclusion if WAR had held off and released now I think it would be doing a hell of a lot better. For one they would have the added content and two it would be after WoTLK which everyone knew WoW players would return to.

The MMO world is a fickle one so if you want to compete you have to bring a finished product to the table

Bonedead said...

That is the common misconception, that they want to compete with WoW. Well sure, they WANT to, who wouldn't. But it just isn't going to be possible.

No MMO in the history of MMOs has ever been released as a finished product. MMOs are never a finished product because there has to be new content for players to play.

I'd like to believe that the developers always know what they're releasing, they know that they've got at least a year of just as hard working ahead of them no matter what. They're pressured into setting release dates and it is now common for an MMO to miss at least 2 release dates. They would love to keep delaying I'm sure but if your boss tells you it's time to get the show on the road, what can you do?

Anonymous said...

'No MMO in the history of MMOs has ever been released as a finished product' im not talking about releasing a finished game without addin any content im talking about UI, bugs etc and making it a smooth entry into a new world. Not a complete farse like WARs live launch. (yes WoW had problems at launch but they didnt have to compete with WoW)

When Warcraft launched it had some big problems however EQ wasnt the most stable either. What Warcraft did was copy much of what was around at the time and make it better and more accessible.

Im not saying copy WoW to beat WoW but at the very least they should be highlighting what works and makes WoW user friendly and fresh for this amount of time and improve on it.

I'll agree to disagree as Im very much all for a choice of MMOs for players, I cannot however understand some developers mindset

Bonedead said...

Yeah I have to disagree. Devs have to know they're not going to beat/compete with WoW, I can't imagine them being so delusional to think they can convert the players.

They know every MMO launches with problems, they know there are plenty of MMO players who can accept this (enough to keep a game afloat anyway), so instead of getting deeper in the hole they release what they've got.

In WARs case, their own hype was pretty much their downfall.

Every game gets so much hype before release nowadays.

Anonymous said...

I think in WARs case the suffered from having the 'king of spin' Mark Jacobs flappin his gums too much.

I really wanted WAR to succeed however they just didnt spend enough time sorting out the basics before release. Conan was the same altho I hear Conan is actually a good game now..... im far too bitter to return to check it out.